Saturday, 20 August 2011

Topping from the bottom?

Lady Grey raised an interesting question about my last blog post where I mentioned that since the implementation of our weekly maintenance punishment I was no longer being restrained.

It was something I had suggested to Mistress initially and we had decided to go along with. Lady Grey questioned whether this was a subtle form of topping from the bottom and, I have to admit, it probably is.
These are Lady Grey’s observations.

"You say that you're not using restraints in the maintenance sessions, and evidently this strengthens your personal sense of commitment to these sessions. The implication is that it takes more intestinal fortitude to endure the caning if you're not restrained, and shows your willingness to take what is doled out without breaking your position of physical submission. I'd imagine that the mental aspects of controlling your response without restraints is also satisfying to you with its clear implication of mental strength as well as physical.
Hmmm. I have to ask...just whom are you doing this for? Is this strictly for your own benefit so that you can feel good about yourself and your ability to take it "unforced and unfettered"? How does your wife feel about this? Is any of this at her behest? It sems you suggested it and acted upon it without asking her what she preferred. Or did you just leave out the fact that there was a discussion about restraints?
I think you know where I'm going with this. Is this not a subtle form of topping from the bottom while acting the "hero" for your ability to deal with the pain without restraint? If I were in your wife's position and my husband attempted to unilaterally decide the question of restraints....well, I assure you that it would not be a pretty situation for him. I'd be interested in your (and her) response.”
Lady Grey subsequently made this comment after re-reading my original post.
"As a follow up to my previous comment, I've re-read your posting and though you merely said you'd suggested the lack of restraints and acted upon same, it seems quite possible that you were implying that there was indeed a discussion that might have led to her agreeing. If so, I apologize for my assumption that this was strictly your doing. Is that what happened?"
Lady Grey has no need to apologise. She is correct in her assessment that it is I who suggested the idea of no restraints. Mistress and I briefly discussed this and it was agreed we would try it. Mistress has always been annoyed by two things when she punishes me, one is my writhing around because she takes great pride in supplying me with an accurate set of lines across my bottom. And secondly, she gets very annoyed when I become vocal. I think that’s down more to worrying about my well being.

So in return for the gift of punishment, I’m trying to improve my ‘performance’ so she can enjoy laying on the cane without too much fuss from me.

Lady Grey suggests that I may have suggested this in order to feel better about myself and I’m sure there could be something in what she says. When I was at school, the cane was used infrequently. I escaped being on the receiving end – but it'ssomething I wish I’d experienced because maybe I’d have not had such enthusiasm for it in my adult life

But it seemed to me that post-caning talk at school was dominated by discussion of ‘how many strokes’, ‘did he take it without crying,’ so there could be a subconscious  desire for me to be ‘brave’ as Lady Grey

But it’s very difficult to come across as brave when you present yourself before Mistress, offering he the cane, wearing nothing more than baggy PVC bloomers (my punishment pants – which Mistress does pull down for the caning by the way). Then three or four times during the caning you’ve shot bolt upright, you gasp or moan after every stroke and when you face Mistress afterward for a lecture, the corners or your eyes are moist where you’ve grimaces so much!

The thing about our relationship is that I’ve had a very keen interest in corporal punishment since I can remember. I’ve always been excited by the idea of dominant women. But, I fell in love with my partner because I just wanted to be with her for the person she was and the thing we had together. At that time, she showed absolutely no signs of being a dominant lady, apart from occasionally being a little 'bossy'.

Very early in our relationship I told her about my interests because I knew sooner or later it would come out and I thought best be honest rather than sometime down the line wrecking our relationship with a shock horror revelation she might not be able to cope with. She had no idea that adults played CP games but embraced my interests fully. Mistress hates housework, cooking etc – in fact any household chores - so for her to find someone like me, willing to do them, is heaven for her.

But once we started playing CP games, it was obvious she enjoyed the role of dominant and began putting her spin on how things played out.

However, Lady Grey is correct in her assessment that I have topped from the bottom – and continue to do so.  I do offer ideas, Mistress and I discuss them and they are either discarded or implemented. But then Mistress comes up with ideas too – which we always follow!

It would be interesting know how it works in other relationships.  How often is it that the female is the one initiating an FLR? If it’s the male who initiates it, how does the relationship develop to the point where the female is truley in charge? Is it like ours where the male still tends to lead – or is it usually the way that the female takes full control? I’m sure every relationship works in a different way.

Is ours a true FLR? Probably not. I’m well aware I need to behave in a much more submissive manner. I'm not talking out of turn to suggest Mistress could be morre authoritarian. But then would I rebel agasint that authority? Would Mistress find that too difficult and not even like the fact I was too submissive?

I know I definitely need to think more of Mistress and what her wants and needs might be. But maybe that’s why we’re on this journey – to try and instill more of that into me. I am selfish and I am headstrong. I know where I need to be but it’s a long road getting there.

That’s why I was the one who suggested we begin using CP as a way to correct my real faults, rather than just playing CP games of an evening.

The problem with we both struggled to fit the discipline around our regular lives and, I mentioned Michael M’s suggestion of routine maintenance punishments and Mistress told me to draw up some kind of regime.
The interesting thing about this new regime is that Mistress is the one insisting on carrying it out. If we miss our Thursday, 8.00pm slot, she is the one who reschedules – and insists that all 36 strokes are applied. I’ve also noticed Mistress is now more authoritarian than she ever used to be. I think she’s thoroughly enjoying herself. So am I and no matter what route you follow in an FLR as long as both are happy then that’s all that matters isn’t it?

But I’ll take on board Lady Grey’s comments. It’s always a wonderful help to have others willing offering their wealth of experience. Thank you Lady Grey.


  1. You're overthinking all this. Are you in an FLR? Unless everything you post is pure fantasy, then absolutely yes you are. First, nobody else but you and your Mistress gets to decide if you're "real enough." Second, you're still living in the dayworld, maintaining the FLR while maintaining the romance that brought you together, going to work, taking care of children, etc. None of those things go away because she has a cane, including the fact that you're a person with needs and desires and virtues and faults, and that person is somebody she loves and cares about. Do you have ideas, do you discuss things, do you ever "top from the bottom" (which is to say, you ask aloud for something that makes you feel happy and fulfilled in the acts of submission)? Yes, of course you do, because you're real people living in the real world.

    You asked: "How often is it that the female is the one initiating an FLR? If it’s the male who initiates it, how does the relationship develop to the point where the female is truly in charge? Is it like ours where the male still tends to lead – or is it usually the way that the female takes full control?" Well, to some extent you answered your own questions by:
    " I’m sure every relationship works in a different way." You already know that probably 90+% of the time the male initiates it. That's not good or bad, it's just how the lifestyle is (probably always has been) in our culture. Can't say if the male "still tends to lead" or "the female takes full control"; there's no answer to that other than mostly "none of the above" because the parties work it out.

    You ask "Is ours a true FLR?" Yes, it is because she's leading in such a manner as to develop you as a man, and enjoying the benefits of her dominance. Could you be more submissive, could she be more authoritarian? Probably. But there's no "passing grade" there's no time limit; as you point out you're on a journey.

    You summed it up nicely: "I know I definitely need to think more of Mistress and what her wants and needs might be. But maybe that’s why we’re on this journey – to try and instill more of that into me. I am selfish and I am headstrong. I know where I need to be but it’s a long road getting there." Yes, that's what you and I do, and need to do, and are doing everyday as we strive to please them.

  2. RM - I wouldn't worry too much about making suggestions, I am sure Mistress is capable of discouraging that if she wants to.

    Ravensron is correct that a FLR is whatever Mistress and you decide it is. We are not single minded, we have many likes and many obligations that dictate a FLR will not be pure or absolute. This does not mean your lifestyle is any less valid.

    The two of you are obviously making progress on the path you choose to travel.

    Thanks for the thought provoking post.


  3. There's no blueprint that can describe the "perfect" FLR. It's whatever two people want it to be. There are endless variations and endless possibilites. Every person is different, every relationship is different, and therefore every FLR is bound to be different.

    If you and your wife are happy with what you have, that's just fine. Frustrations usually occur when one of the twosome is either not enjoying what's happening or is not satisfied with the level of FLR that he or she is experiencing. Usually, it's the male who finds himself desirous of more discipline, more rules, more dominance, etc. This situation often leads to male frustration, and to attempts on the male's part to top from the bottom in an attemt to ramp up the dominance.

    It's clear that most FLR's are initiated by the male. Therefore it's perfectly understandable that the male would, after having initiated the FLR in the first place, almost naturally be put into the position of remaining something of an initiator in the relationship, especially if his wife/partner had been somewhat reluctant to give FLR a try. Thus, topping from the bottom becomes almost a necessity for the frustrated male. It's really up to the Dom to stop such things, and she can only do so by actually taking control of the FLR.

    Imagine how much easier things would be for all of those male sub wannabees if the female were naturally dominant, and acted upon that dominance by initiating the FLR herself. Alas, that's more the exception than the rule. So don't be too hard on yourself. I'm sure your wife is intelligent enough to put a stop to any blatant topping, and I'm sure you'd be thrilled if she did so in a way that is painfully, and memorably, instructive:)

  4. Defining an FLR in such a way that it encompasses all tastes and desires would be a difficult task.
    FLR is a state of mind. A happy life is having someone to love, something to work at and something to hope for. In the case of someone like you and I, the something to hope for is a good thrashing with a cane.
    No one can work out why this should be so.
    Just chill and if your wife will provide you with what you desire, then be grateful. Topping from the bottom or bottoming from the top has nothing to do with your needs and desires. What you want is to say “Yes, ma’am.” and be punished if you don’t say it quickly enough or if you say it without meaning it.
    Wherever this need comes from just go with it – it is a part of your soul and you are blessed to have a wife that will satisfy you. Now go off and please her.
    Michael M

  5. Thank you everyone who has commented here.

    Ravensron: as you say, I am probably overthinking but apart from Mistress there's no one else to discuss this with apart from you people out therein blogsphere who have similar interests so it's to offer thoughts and gain some kind of feedback. It's great to get different views from people.

    Newports.sub: You are so right about Mistress being more capable of making her own decisions. I went through a phase of reading about chastity devices and suggested the idea but the repsonse was firm - we didn't need a chastity device because Mistress decided when I would be allowed any actitivty in that direction and relieving myself was strictly forbidden.

    Lady Grey: I like your observations. Why is it us males need more of a regime where the female doesn't? Your comment,'It's really up to the Dom to stop such things, and she can only do so by actually taking control of the FLR,' struck a chord. I think where we're at is on the cusp of Mistress taking control. It's almost that she wants to but it's quite sure of the limits/boundaries becasue, as I've said, this is still a learning process for us both. And as for your final comment, I think if the female were naturally dominant and intiated the FLR herslef, then the male sub might get a lot more than he bargained for (lol)!

    MichaelM : So right my friend. I'll sign off now and go and do the housework!

  6. I,m a simple soul and in the face of so many experts I hesitate to make a suggestion

    Vocalising ?? Try a Ball Gag
    Writihng ?? Try a wooden horse or St Andrews Cross

    It would save on over analysing , internalising,agonising and its simple